Bloomberg: Quigley Details Concerns Over Chinese Cyber Attacks & Russia Investigation Update
CHANG: Thirteen days ago, Bloomberg reporting revealed that China had carried out the most significant known supply-chain attack ever on U.S. companies. According to 17 sources with direct knowledge of the compromised hardware, Chinese hackers implanted tiny microchips in the servers of Supermicro that infiltrated the data center that almost 30 U.S. companies including Amazon and Apple. Lastly, Bloomberg reported on more evidence of hacked hardware via Supermicro present in a major U.S. telecom. My next guest is a member of the U.S. House intelligence committee and represents Illinois Fifth District, Representative Mike Quigley joins us now from Chicago. Congressman, thank you for joining us.
QUIGLEY: Thank you, glad to be here.
CHANG: On a scale of one to 10, how much did the scenario for trade in this story scare the intelligence community?
QUIGLEY: Look, I think on an ongoing basis the intelligence community is afraid of this. I think it should be beyond a 10. The real question here is how surprised would they be? I think most of them would not be surprised at all if a story like this was found out to be true. The threats are very real.
CHANG: I should add that, again, we spoke to 17 different primary sources with direct knowledge of these compromised hardware sources inside the companies and inside the U.S. government. So, what do you believe the House intelligence committee should do as a result of this report?
QUIGLEY: First, they should talk to the manufacturers and the intelligence community to get more fully briefed on this and complete a much more thorough investigation. I believe part of that is already taking place. I understand the leadership of the House select committee on intelligence has already asked for that briefing and I would be surprised if it didn't take face within a week. As far as meeting with the manufacturers, it would probably take place when we come back after the midterms.
CHANG: What sort of dialogue has the intelligence community had with other government agencies about this?
QUIGLEY: I think there is an ongoing discussion, ongoing relationship that is taking place for some time now. This is a threat I learned about since I've been on the committee and even before as a Member of Congress. The threat is that China will attack our intelligence community. It will attack our sources of information and our intellectual property at every possible point. We are not prepared for that at this point in time.
CHANG: I should add that Amazon, Apple, and Supermicro have all issued statements denying knowledge of these allegations, which you can read on our website in full. That said, when it comes to hardware, Representative Quigley, how vulnerable do you believe we really are, given that the supply chains of these companies go all the way back to China?
QUIGLEY: The supply-chain issue is extraordinarily complicated, but the threat is extremely real. I think we saw we saw just a little bit borne out when we saw the ZTE phone issue come to be. When Congress finally acted through the National Defense Reauthorization Act. They banned the government purchase of these phones. Unfortunately, they did not demand the same from the private sector. I think you're going to see more of that. The fact is, I don't know that we can pick up that demand. It just proves we are going to have to build more of these materials that are put into all of our communication of equipment and all our computer equipment right here in the U.S. or in places in which we can trust the supply chain. As you suggest, it is an ever more complicated world and it will be harder and harder to trace sources of all these materials that go into this important equipment.
CHANG: How should companies be looking at the security of their supply chain? And, how would they go about moving their supply chains out of China given the many years they've been entrenched there?
QUIGLEY: It's not just the many years they've been there, it's the sheer volume that's needed is going to be hard to make up for all of the lack of material. It's going to take some time. I think there needs to be partnerships within these corporations working together to understand the threats. There also needs to be an enhanced relationship with government and academics to understand the threat and to cooperate to meet this more fully head-on. The government's role needs to be to help these entities face this challenge, give them the complete information they need, and the assistance they need in probably ramping up the work they needs to get done in the United State to create this material here or within partners that we trust.
CHANG: Given what we know now, would you advocate Apple or Supermicro moving their supply chains out of China? Supermicro has servers in so many countries and government agencies.
QUIGLEY: Unless they find some miraculous way to check all of this and make sure it's safe, they are going to have to. I believe it is going to take some time, but at some point in time, we will have to recognize that threat and find a way to move the supply chains elsewhere, at least with allies we trust and partners that we can work with.
CHANG: Meantime, I'd like to get an update on the Russia investigation. There are 54 transcripts being scrubbed of classified information. When do you expect those transcripts to be released to the public?
QUIGLEY: Most of those should have been released already. The fact of the matter is the vast majority involve only unclassified material. We attempted on the Democratic side to get those released immediately and we were met with opposition. The rest of them are going to take some time to be scrubbed by the intel community and we're fine with that. The fact of the matter is we asked this information be released half a year ago. On the last day that we were in session, in the middle of the Kavanaugh hearings, they released this information to the intel community scrubbed hoping that people would forget it existed.
CHANG: Why do you think it's important for the public to see these transcripts from Don Jr., from Steve Bannon?
QUIGLEY: I think it will help them begin to understand what I have learned for the last two years of this investigation. There was an attack on the democratic process. It was the Russians who acted alone. They did it to benefit one candidate and hurt another. And there were those in the Trump world communicating on an ongoing basis, attempting, at the very least, attempting to conspire with the Russians. I believe the transcripts as released will bear that out. I think it will also bear out that my Republican colleagues weren't nearly as diligent in asking questions and trying to find out what took place. And finally, there's a lot more to learn, an we were stymied at many points in this investigation trying to find out what took place. A gag order from the White House, the fact that witnesses were not subpoenaed, at least 40, and those that did show up weren't required to answer questions.
CHANG: Facebook said it is banning misinformation on the platform about voter suppression, whether their vote will count. How you can vote. Do you think this is enough, or should Facebook be doing more? They are outsourcing other information to third party fact checkers, which if flagged would be down ranked, but not necessarily removed from the platform.
QUIGLEY: I think if Facebook and other social media platforms were slow to react to this, they were woefully underprepared during the last election as the Russians weaponized social media. They are slowly coming to realize just what a threat this is, what an attack it is on the democratic process. I welcome the reforms as they come. In the final analysis, it's going to be up to the American people to recognize this threat and be aware of anything like the posts they have seen before that are divisive or seem very unrealistic.
CHANG: Are you satisfied then with what you see Facebook doing so far? This is a gigantic platform. Is it realistic that Facebook itself can have control over all of this?
QUIGLEY: It's going to take more than just Facebook. It's going to take involvement with all social media platforms and the American public playing a role as well. There's always more that they can do. It is going to require a lot of resources to do the policing of this, but it's the least the American public can expect. It is all about transparency and accountability. With posts like if you voted in the primary, you don't have to vote in the general. Or if you click on this, you have already voted. If that suppresses just a few votes, it is worth fighting against.
CHANG: Congressman Mike Quigley of Illinois, thank you very much for joining us.